Julia: That takes a lot of courage. What helped you take that first step?

Frannie: I think it was that feeling of being genuinely heard. Once I realised people were listening, I felt more confident to speak. And it’s not just about speaking; it’s about sharing knowledge and learning both ways. There’s space for teaching others about our culture, and for us to learn how the system works and how we can use our voices within it.

Kimmi: I felt similar. At first, I was a bit apprehensive because you have to be vulnerable. You’re sharing your experiences and educating people at the same time.

But once I started, I realised it was a safe and welcoming space. I could say what I needed to say and help people understand our cultural differences, which made it easier.

Now it comes naturally, because I know it’s genuine. It’s not just doing a RAP for the sake of it; people genuinely want to learn and be involved.

Julia: What does being part of Health Consumers NSW mean to you?

Kimmi: It’s extremely important. HCNSW should be setting the example and encouraging other organisations to be inclusive and to learn about different cultures.

Being part of HCNSW allows me to bring my voice forward and be part of real change.

Frannie: I feel the same. It felt like an olive branch, a safe and comfortable space.

It didn’t feel tokenistic; it felt like people genuinely wanted to address difficult issues and work through them together. And that’s what reconciliation is about, having those conversations, even when they’re uncomfortable, and working out what’s best for mob.

I’d love to see more Aboriginal youth coming through into these roles, into leadership, because that’s how we continue this work.

Julia: As First Nations women advocating in this space, what are one or two things you would most like to see changed in the NSW health system?

Frannie: For me, it’s about culture being respected, not dismissed.

Our culture and our medicines have kept our people alive for a very long time. That knowledge should be valued.

Also, cultural competency isn’t something you learn in a short course. It’s ongoing. If we’re serious about closing gaps and reconciliation, we need to keep learning from each other.

Kimmi: I agree. For me, it comes down to listening and not assuming.

Ask us questions. Have conversations with us. Don’t speak down to us or assume you know what’s best.

And don’t dismiss our ways, like bush medicine. It’s been around for generations. If we’re reaching out to Western medicine, we want that collaboration, not to have our knowledge ignored.

There needs to be respect, understanding and genuine communication.

Julia: So, it’s about listening, respect and active engagement?

Kimmi: Exactly. Not just saying you’re listening but actually listening.

If you don’t know something, ask. We’re not scared to educate people. We’d rather be asked than have assumptions made.

It’s about collaboration, listening to us, learning from us, and then working together.

Julia: What strengths do you see in your communities that the health system could learn from?

Frannie: There’s so much strength in our communities. People have knowledge, and people are willing to talk.

We’re approachable. If you ask us, we’ll have honest conversations.

We don’t need to be patronised or told what to do. We’re capable of making our own decisions. We hold knowledge and strength that others could learn from.

Kimmi: Our communities are strong and connected. We have elders, we talk things through, we support each other.

We’re not closed off; we’re open to sharing and educating, but people need to come and engage with us.

There’s a lot of knowledge there if people are willing to listen.

Julia: Why is it so important that First Nations voices are included in health services and research decisions?

Frannie: Because it’s nothing about us without us.

We shouldn’t have decisions made for us. We should be part of those decisions.

It’s about collaboration, learning from each other, and building strength. It also helps our young people see that their voices matter.

Kimmi: Exactly. How can someone make decisions for us if they don’t understand us?

That’s why co-design is so important. It shouldn’t be that we give input, and it gets ignored.

If our voices aren’t there, everything is missed. It’s like trying to put together furniture with no instructions. It’s not going to work.

We need to be part of those conversations, so the outcomes actually work for our communities.

Julia: You’re both part of the HCNSW RAP Working Group. What has that experience been like?

Frannie: For me, it’s been one of the most transparent processes I’ve been part of.

We’ve been involved from the very beginning, not brought in halfway through. That’s how it should be done when working with mob.

Kimmi: It doesn’t even feel like “work”. It’s an open, safe space where people can ask questions and learn.

Even just building the RAP has been a learning experience for everyone involved. And that’s powerful, even if it’s one person at a time.

RAPs are important because they help organisations be inclusive, educate people, and create real understanding, not just awareness.

Julia: Do you ever get tired of always being the one educating others?

Kimmi: Personally, I don’t, because I’d rather someone learn the right way than get it wrong.

But we do need more people, especially younger people, to come forward and use their voices.

Over time, it becomes shared. People learn, then they educate others. That’s how change grows.

Frannie: And that’s how we break down stigma and misconceptions, too.

When people connect and talk, it challenges what they’ve been told or what they’ve assumed.

That’s where real change happens.

Julia: Finally, what would you like to see for the future?

Frannie: More voices. More young people stepping into these roles.

And more genuine engagement, where we work together and respect each other’s knowledge and culture.

Kimmi: More collaboration, more listening, and more action.

If we keep working together, learning from each other, and including everyone in the conversation, we can create a better system for everyone.

Thank you so much for sharing your story and insights, Kimmi and Frannie. I am learning so much from your wisdom.